Author Topic: Suggestions: 2nd attempt  (Read 2562 times)

Offline The Old VIEJO

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Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« on: May 12, 2015, 06:09:36 PM »
Since my last thread was ignored, and considering I still want to hear a good answer or opinion, I will quote a good part of what I said and then suggest and comment something else:

Quote
This is the "long" suggestion: I suppose you have never heard of Staff Applications or Staff positions given by merit.
Now, you may be thinking "wtf is dis bitch talkin bout?!" Well the answer is quite simple, if you want more control around your servers I think you need to give players more "motivation" to join the Staff team, in this case, another Administrative/Staff position, higher than Admin but lower than root or r00f or whatever it's called. This position would have the ability to give permissions or ban for longer than just 5 shitty days

Basically, you can't buy this position (this is the main point), you have to apply/ask for it in order to receive it. Imo this would increase democracy around here and would decrease the well known pay2win or "donate2notgetbanned/donate2receiveanyposition" politicy around here.

I know you guys are always crawling for money and stuff so you can adapt this suggestion as much as you please, or deny it completely, entirely up to you.
---------------

With that being said, I would also like to add that someone has shown me why Niggamon got banned and unfortunatelly I  agree with him (except for all of the insults etc etc) and most of what he said is the main reason of why I lost hope in this community some time ago and eventually moved on.

I want to be clear, back then I never thought this community would end up like this, I did know it was going to be bad but well this is a bit too much (note: I am not blaming the current Staff/playerbase).

I won't translate this message because it's mainly supposed to go for the leaders of the community and those who know me from back then.

I have always encouraged good behavior and will always do, this thread is supposed not to start a flame war or a drama, this is supposed to make you, a casual user/staff member or whatever, reconsider what you expect from the original creator(s) of this place.

Hopefully I will get an actual answer this time, at least PM me if you don't feel like posting it here, dunno
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 06:15:03 PM by The Old VIEJO »



Offline ProVaIO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2015, 06:40:14 PM »
I agree to an extent, but I believe the admin position is fine (meaning no need to add another). Imo we should have some admins voted in by older administration( Cadi, Booglie, LM, Sailormoon, Hcharlie; etc.) I personally let any player say whatever they want about me while I'm on (it's a bit annoying sometimes, but meh.) I don't agree with banning over slander :\  Back to the other point, we need donations for Hideout to run, so giving some players incentive to give is nice for Hideout.
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Offline BurntLiquid

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 06:55:03 PM »
did you come back just to complain?


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Offline The Old VIEJO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 08:53:52 PM »
did you come back just to complain?

Hah, I have to admit this is half a complaint-half a suggestion, kind of.

In a serious note, pay2win politics always end up bad (kind of, this is a clear example, no hard feelings) and lack of effort is a very bad thing too if you ask me.


I agree to an extent, but I believe the admin position is fine (meaning no need to add another). Imo we should have some admins voted in by older administration( Cadi, Booglie, LM, Sailormoon, Hcharlie; etc.) I personally let any player say whatever they want about me while I'm on (it's a bit annoying sometimes, but meh.) I don't agree with banning over slander :\  Back to the other point, we need donations for Hideout to run, so giving some players incentive to give is nice for Hideout.

Administrative positions are pretty much pay2win, based on some of the reports I saw things are still out of control regarding Staff members being abusive and stuff so yeah.

I am currently part of a gmod community which in my opinion has a great potential, we always had this policy about not paid staff position (except for moderator which has restrictions of course, etc). This is why I'm suggesting this idea here, perhaps you guys could improve, it shows not only that you must win your title, but also that this method does bring people's attention.
Of course, this isn't the same, we are talking about two different games and stuff but from what I can remember 5 days is the max amount of time an Admin can ban for. If I had to analyze this restrictive policy, considering that you guys seem to have a major problem with hackers/rulebreakers/whatever, I would say it's very bad: this is why I'm suggesting a new position with a new promotion system and stuff.

Obviously this would mean a bunch of things around here would have to change but, again, I think it would fit well, who knows.

Offline LonelyMaid

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 11:02:53 PM »
Five days is more than enough for a ban length. If a player needs to be banned longer then it just turns into a permanent ban and that's the end of it. The only players that are posting abuse reports are the ones cheating, and the reason why there's a 'problem' with cheaters is that this is an older version and non steam. Steam servers don't have a problem with cheaters, because they get vac banned. Anyone that pays for admin may get it but if they are a problem we can just demote or ban them.

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Offline ProVaIO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2015, 11:09:23 PM »
Administrative positions are pretty much pay2win, based on some of the reports I saw things are still out of control regarding Staff members being abusive and stuff so yeah.

I am currently part of a gmod community which in my opinion has a great potential, we always had this policy about not paid staff position (except for moderator which has restrictions of course, etc). This is why I'm suggesting this idea here, perhaps you guys could improve, it shows not only that you must win your title, but also that this method does bring people's attention.
Of course, this isn't the same, we are talking about two different games and stuff but from what I can remember 5 days is the max amount of time an Admin can ban for. If I had to analyze this restrictive policy, considering that you guys seem to have a major problem with hackers/rulebreakers/whatever, I would say it's very bad: this is why I'm suggesting a new position with a new promotion system and stuff.


Obviously this would mean a bunch of things around here would have to change but, again, I think it would fit well, who knows.
[/quote]
-There has been, and always will be a problem with hackers, cheaters, and "rule breakers". What you are suggesting is we take away an incentive to help the Hideout community. How will the servers be paid for, if there isn't someone paying in exchange for something? I'm not saying the system is perfect either. How would we pay server bills in your scheme? Yes, some of the reports get a bit ridiculous (like slander and shit), but still we need a strong group of admins, and from the looks of it, with Lm, Youfunny, Barbarian, Hcharlie, etc, we have that staff. Please go into more detail with your new promotional system, as you are pointing out very good holes.
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Offline The Old VIEJO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 11:36:23 PM »
Five days is more than enough for a ban length. If a player needs to be banned longer then it just turns into a permanent ban and that's the end of it. The only players that are posting abuse reports are the ones cheating, and the reason why there's a 'problem' with cheaters is that this is an older version and non steam. Steam servers don't have a problem with cheaters, because they get vac banned. Anyone that pays for admin may get it but if they are a problem we can just demote or ban them.

I should have suggested this before, I didn't get the chance just yet to see by myself how the servers are going right now but I made this suggestion because:
a. I assume player base is still a bunch of troublemakers etc
And b. As I have stated already half (or more) of the posts I have seen so far are related to player reports.

I don't think they will ever try to move to Steam servers because that would probably mean losing more than half of the current playerbase, which means the little income to keep the server running would be most likely gone, not to mention, it would also be kind of hard I suppose.

By the way vac bans mean nothing if your server is not "secured", that would also mean that the most effective method to stop cheaters would be perma bans/bans longer than at least 1 week, and again that leads to the need of more power for Admins or the creation of a new position, or finally more activity from Root Admins.

In my opinion cheaters should be banned permanently, this seems to be another problem because cheaters don't fear a 5 days ban at all.

I'd like to add another suggestion which I suppose hasn't been implemented yet: a ban record. A simple database where bans are stored: why would you need this? how would you use it? For what would I use it? Simple questions
People need to learn, if you ban them over and over for little reasons that's just frustrating. Staff members would have the ability to use a command such as !br 'name' or !po 'name' (previous offenses) that would open a popup showing the selected player's previous bans, with dates, ban times, reason and who banned him.
If said player hasn't learnt his lesson, you know the rest.
This suggestion is directly taken from this community I was talking about too, it's a very useful feature.

I know we improvised something like this some time ago LM, with a shared excel or something if I remember right.

Again, I still like the servers that's why I'm suggesting stuff. Real feedback would be nice rather than blatant negative comments, that doesn't help

Offline ProVaIO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 11:45:48 PM »
Five days is more than enough for a ban length. If a player needs to be banned longer then it just turns into a permanent ban and that's the end of it. The only players that are posting abuse reports are the ones cheating, and the reason why there's a 'problem' with cheaters is that this is an older version and non steam. Steam servers don't have a problem with cheaters, because they get vac banned. Anyone that pays for admin may get it but if they are a problem we can just demote or ban them.

I should have suggested this before, I didn't get the chance just yet to see by myself how the servers are going right now but I made this suggestion because:
a. I assume player base is still a bunch of troublemakers etc
And b. As I have stated already half (or more) of the posts I have seen so far are related to player reports.

I don't think they will ever try to move to Steam servers because that would probably mean losing more than half of the current playerbase, which means the little income to keep the server running would be most likely gone, not to mention, it would also be kind of hard I suppose.

By the way vac bans mean nothing if your server is not "secured", that would also mean that the most effective method to stop cheaters would be perma bans/bans longer than at least 1 week, and again that leads to the need of more power for Admins or the creation of a new position, or finally more activity from Root Admins.

In my opinion cheaters should be banned permanently, this seems to be another problem because cheaters don't fear a 5 days ban at all.

I'd like to add another suggestion which I suppose hasn't been implemented yet: a ban record. A simple database where bans are stored: why would you need this? how would you use it? For what would I use it? Simple questions
People need to learn, if you ban them over and over for little reasons that's just frustrating. Staff members would have the ability to use a command such as !br 'name' or !po 'name' (previous offenses) that would open a popup showing the selected player's previous bans, with dates, ban times, reason and who banned him.
If said player hasn't learnt his lesson, you know the rest.
This suggestion is directly taken from this community I was talking about too, it's a very useful feature.

I know we improvised something like this some time ago LM, with a shared excel or something if I remember right.

Again, I still like the servers that's why I'm suggesting stuff. Real feedback would be nice rather than blatant negative comments, that doesn't help

Steam servers would cause the servers to probably have 6/26 players on at a time. (A few months ago, a lot of people were locked out), the ban record is in effect. Cheaters don't fear bans in general, they can easily change their steamid, ip, etc. A new type of position would not solve the problems of reports (they would still complain).
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Offline BurntLiquid

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 01:08:02 AM »
Cadi has stated that he plans on moving the servers to steam this year.

we may lose half of the players on the servers but most of them may be russian/spanish rulebreakers.

I have checked out the zombie servers on steam and none of them compare to these awesome servers. None of them have nearly as many cool mods and these do. Because of that I believe these servers will be very popular on steam and will bring in many NEW and ENGLISH speaking players.


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Offline ProVaIO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 02:30:01 AM »
Cadi has stated that he plans on moving the servers to steam this year.

we may lose half of the players on the servers but most of them may be russian/spanish rulebreakers.

I have checked out the zombie servers on steam and none of them compare to these awesome servers. None of them have nearly as many cool mods and these do. Because of that I believe these servers will be very popular on steam and will bring in many NEW and ENGLISH speaking players.

Fuck, now I've got to go back to steam(am doing so next month, actually) :| Why'd you put emphasis on English? Not every Russian, or Spanish player is a rule breaker, in fact a lot of English speaking American's cheat.  ???
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Offline Barbarian

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2015, 12:35:17 PM »
I actually liked Viejo's suggestion about the previous offenses list,should be used by names,steam ids,and ips,to get right,and good info about the player,if he changes his name can't track him anymore.

As for moving to steam servers,that will happen soon.
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Offline LonelyMaid

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2015, 12:42:34 PM »
I actually liked Viejo's suggestion about the previous offenses list,should be used by names,steam ids,and ips,to get right,and good info about the player,if he changes his name can't track him anymore.

As for moving to steam servers,that will happen soon.
We've had that list for months. You were given it, just chose not to use it.

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2015, 12:46:10 PM »
I know that,i use it,but it would be easier and faster with a command on the server which gives you all the info you need.
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Offline The Old VIEJO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2015, 04:12:53 PM »
We've had that list for months. You were given it, just chose not to use it.

If you are talking about that list we used that's just very stupid and frustrating considering the amount of people that break the rules and get banned for it every day, there's just no way and it's not worth it adding every single person that gets banned MANUALLY. It's not too hard to code some kind of ban record if you have C++ knowledge as well as HTML. Just a simple script and database that stores bans, said database sends the necessary info to the website and with a little magic you get a functional ban record attached to the website.

Offline ProVaIO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2015, 05:35:15 PM »
We've had that list for months. You were given it, just chose not to use it.

If you are talking about that list we used that's just very stupid and frustrating considering the amount of people that break the rules and get banned for it every day, there's just no way and it's not worth it adding every single person that gets banned MANUALLY. It's not too hard to code some kind of ban record if you have C++ knowledge as well as HTML. Just a simple script and database that stores bans, said database sends the necessary info to the website and with a little magic you get a functional ban record attached to the website.


You seem to have clear knowledge of how it works, why don't you do it?
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Offline The Old VIEJO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2015, 06:41:19 AM »
You seem to have clear knowledge of how it works, why don't you do it?

Because I don't really think Cadi's gonna just gimme his precious code and make me some kind of dev like that lol. If I really wanted to do it I would first need to know how Cadmin works and all that shit, not to mention re-search HTML cause I  cant remember too well blahblah, in other words, too much work and specially permissions would be needed, common sense right there.


Offline ProVaIO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2015, 09:17:27 AM »
You seem to have clear knowledge of how it works, why don't you do it?

Because I don't really think Cadi's gonna just gimme his precious code and make me some kind of dev like that lol. If I really wanted to do it I would first need to know how Cadmin works and all that shit, not to mention re-search HTML cause I  cant remember too well blahblah, in other words, too much work and specially permissions would be needed, common sense right there.
Yeah, I know :p maybe in the near future we can have such a thing implemented
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Offline The Old VIEJO

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2015, 09:02:37 PM »
Suggestions are suggestions, I just want to say what I think right now eh

First of all, I don't wanna sound like a party pooper but priorities must be set here if you want an actual improvement, we all knew this but I didn't want to directly say it but it is necessary to move to Steam servers, and if for whatever reason you don't know why I think this way (no, it's not because I'm "racist" or xenophobic or whatever you wanna call it), the answer it's very simple and most of you all have already seen it or just deducted it, you can evade bans pretty easily. What's the point of banning people if they just change their Steam ID, his IP or whatever and just come back? A pretty logical thought I guess

So, what I would do if I ran this community was give higher priority to that, move the servers, let the playerbase know we are moving soon and make sure to tell them where to find out etc etc blah blah. That's point #|.

Point #2 is fix that shitty attitude the dev has always had (at least since I know him) about evading subjects, acting like a turd, etc, no hard feelings but that's a reality, or it was, dunno? I know he doesn't really like to hear these kind of things but yeah, let's get shit together and be real for once.

Point #3 is fix that shitty behavior among staff members. In the past I've had to shut my ass up or else get demoted/insulted/ignored etc, basically rather than respect my higher ups (roots, devs, whatever), I feared them and well that's pretty fucked up right? I even feared some of my fellow Admin comrades because they had (and some still do, I suppose) a closer friendship with higher ups (almost like favoritism, yes) so yeah I wanna be heard now y'know.

In short, less favoritism and more formality-equality I guess.

Point #4: This point in my opinion is as imprtant as #3, and it's also related. Basically encourage people to get interested in joining the Staff. You may be asking "but viejo u stupid dats so hard n complex my head hurtz" and you may be right, but I do believe that if you improve Staff behavior, people will eventually feel good and want to be like them, you know how it goes, so this point could be done if you first make #3.
Basically make staff more friendly to attract players to be like them.

Side note: Remember that these are possibilities, I can't tell for sure this is what's going to happen for obvious reasons.

I think that's all uh yeah, remember that

Now I believe I didn't notice something about a certain comment

Five days is more than enough for a ban length. If a player needs to be banned longer then it just turns into a permanent ban and that's the end of it.

Let me review this for a moment.

You are saying that if a player needs a ban for longer than mere five days, it has to be permanent? Well, to be honest I was expecting more specially from you, just think about it for a moment, if more than 5 days, perma ban? don't be stupid. If this kind of reasoning is only present in you (I hope so) then you are not close to being a good staff member honestly, or if the rest of the staff members agree with you then there's a problem, clearly. Now I ask you, do all of the players that get banned for 5 days get a permanent ban? or when they get banned again do they get a perma? And let's not talk about roots and their famous "speed" when it comes to resolve stuff like this, or when permanent banning people ha, and there's no need to worry because if they perma ban someone they will just evade it like nothing-- but waaait a moment we still have the so called Subnet ban. Right, I forgot we have to contact the dev to get that super duper subnet ban... okay, no worries, hopefully next month we will get an answer.

Talking about Subnet bans, should I mention that infamous hacker that evaded a Subnet ban some time ago? I guess not, I can't remember his name anyway

In all seriousness, get your shit together, talking to you leaders of this community, can't last for too longer like this seriously and again no hard feelings, I just wanted to talk a bit... maybe I exaggerated with this last paragraph eh a bit cocky but welp

I still wish you guys good luck and stuff, comment on this shit so it can be heard

Offline Cadi

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2015, 03:11:17 PM »
Anybody else tired of this trolling?


I was going to waste my time, for the 100th time and shoot your points to shit but... lets keep it simple.. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. I will say this again though.. There are many problems/annoyances with the servers but most of them could be solved by the community, not me.


This a recurring theme...it's almost a holiday. Somebody from the same group of assholes, spouts off about this person is to blame, this is the problem, that's the problem, do this, do that.

Do you know the most annoying part about the majority of them? Most of them never support the server. These are the same people that will attack the players with steam ID stealers, cheats and any other thing they can google.


I've more than kept my word from many years ago and then some. "As long as people enjoy playing and help cover the cost of running the server, I will make sure it stays up." I've done that and spent a lot of time expanding/improving the servers.

I gave my word to those people because they were grateful and supportive. Unlike many assholes nowadays who take it for granted and act like somebody owes them something.

I have a family to support, a son to raise and a job I can't afford to quit. That will always take priority in my life. So fuck you and your ungrateful attitude. :)

All you bring is negative.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 06:36:59 PM by Cadi »
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Offline SpecTrum

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Re: Suggestions: 2nd attempt
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2015, 06:36:16 PM »
Suggestions are suggestions, I just want to say what I think right now eh

fixt